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 Post subject: Re: baroque on lamma
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:24 pm 
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ewald wrote:
The biggest polluter on the Island is those using the Ferry on a daily base, that’s 90% foreigners working in HK.


This is complete nonsense. And what do you mean by "foreigners"?

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 Post subject: Re: baroque on lamma
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:04 pm 
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ewald wrote:
The biggest polluter on the Island is those using the Ferry on a daily base, that’s 90% foreigners working in HK.


Just have a look at the passengers on the ferry. Well over 90% are Chinese.

Quote:
If you need to be brainwashed in a Cultural Revolution labour camp to see the correlations, that’s fine with me, perhaps when you come back you agree.
As of the poor, China had the biggest GDP on earth before it got colonized and plundered
Now it’s not a Colony anymore and about time it gets its place back in the world and if you want to know who the racists are, it’s exactly the people who deny this to China….


Racists are those who see every issue or conflict as based on race. And seek to blame those of other races for every problem.

That's people like you, assuming you aren't on drugs or having a meltdown for some other reason.


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 Post subject: the baroque on lamma
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:05 pm 
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foreign body wrote:
Ewald, good jobs and better housing???
yeah right, maybe as cleaners or in construction, while it lasts.


not in Sardinia, tourism brought by the Aga Khan developments sparked education
and today its the High Tech Centre of Italy
According to Eurostat, the 2007 GDP was €33,823.2 million, resulting in a €20,627 GDP per capita, in 2009

foreign body wrote:
Unless you are a skilled worker, and speak 3 languages you won't get a job at the Marina, nor in the fancy plaza.


I am born in Romania, if you like to play football as a child you got to speak 4languages.
foreign body wrote:
As to better housing, can the poor afford to buy The Baroque luxury flats? Do they need berthing facilities for yachts they will never buy?


Thats not how it works, it will improve the poor standards of building on the Island


foreign body wrote:
BTW, in Costa Smeralda a lot of bar and restaurant jobs go to Eastern European immigrants because they can speak some Russian!


and all that with a low Crime Rate, perhaps due to bunga bunga
Sardinia New York USA
Robbery Risk 2 135 100
Total Crime Risk 13 67 100
Rape Risk 4 60 100
I have no problem with Russian and I am born in Eastern Europe,its the GDP stupid! and all are Europeans!


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 Post subject: Re: baroque on lamma
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:10 pm 
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Marc Antony wrote:
ewald wrote:
The biggest polluter on the Island is those using the Ferry on a daily base, that’s 90% foreigners working in HK.


This is complete nonsense. And what do you mean by "foreigners"?


by law, its the indigenous, and the others,the foreigners


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 Post subject: Re: baroque on lamma
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:28 pm 
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Alan wrote:

Just have a look at the passengers on the ferry. Well over 90% are Chinese.

that might be,but they are not from the Island and I refered clearly to those travelling every day!


Alan wrote:
Racists are those who see every issue or conflict as based on race. And seek to blame those of other races for every problem.


That’s exactly what you executed in your first post to me; I have no conflict and don’t blame anybody I only see the fact, that’s the commuters on this Island ,and they are the biggest polluters
Alan wrote:
That's people like you, assuming you aren't on drugs or having a meltdown for some other reason.


You clearly have no arguments and are therefore insulting; someone may take you one day to court for this miss behavior, perhaps you had problems before?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:39 pm 
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i had never heard of Romanian fruitcake, now i have


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:51 pm 
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If the Baroque developers have friends like Ewald, who needs enemies?


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 Post subject: Re: baroque on lamma
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:05 pm 
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ewald wrote:
Marc Antony wrote:
ewald wrote:
The biggest polluter on the Island is those using the Ferry on a daily base, that’s 90% foreigners working in HK.


This is complete nonsense. And what do you mean by "foreigners"?


by law, its the indigenous, and the others,the foreigners


In that case, 99% of Hong Kong residents are "foreigners".

Some of us have been here a month. Others 20 years. Some two or three generations. A very few can go back 500 years or so.
No one any longer than that because the place was depopulated in the 16th century.

Where you draw the line between "indigenous" and "foreign" is arbitrary.

Anyway, it's all irrelevant and irrational race-baiting.


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 Post subject: Re: baroque on lamma
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:50 pm 
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[quote="Alan
Where you draw the line between "indigenous" and "foreign" is arbitrary.

[/quote]

Its HK law and the law on the Mainland in the Countryside.
Still ,the daily commuting by Ferry does the biggest environmental damage on Lamma more as the Baroque will ever do in its building phase


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:53 pm 
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Virtually the entire population of Lamma is foreign - most people come from far away places like Kowloon and Hong Kong. There are only a few hundred truly indigenous people on the island at the most.

Most of HK's population is foreign - they come from other parts of China and Asia. The people trying to sell the Baroque monstrosity are probably foreign. Take away foreigners and HK becomes a fishing village circa 1835 or thereabouts ...

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 Post subject: Re: baroque on lamma
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:10 pm 
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ewald wrote:
Alan wrote:
Where you draw the line between "indigenous" and "foreign" is arbitrary.



Its HK law and the law on the Mainland in the Countryside.
Still ,the daily commuting by Ferry does the biggest environmental damage on Lamma more as the Baroque will ever do in its building phase


So, your argument is as long as you can imagine anything that is worse than the Baroque, we must allow it.

The "indigenous vs foreigners" stuff is totally irrelevant to this.

You're just loony.


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 Post subject: Re: baroque on lamma
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:23 pm 
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Alan wrote:
ewald wrote:
Alan wrote:
Where you draw the line between "indigenous" and "foreign" is arbitrary.



Its HK law and the law on the Mainland in the Countryside.
Still ,the daily commuting by Ferry does the biggest environmental damage on Lamma more as the Baroque will ever do in its building phase


So, your argument is as long as you can imagine anything that is worse than the Baroque, we must allow it.

The "indigenous vs foreigners" stuff is totally irrelevant to this.

You're just loony.


It would be nice if you could stop accusations I only know from big loosers,
its not versing,indegineous have land titles,forigeners perhaps have leases only and that makes the difference.


Last edited by ewald on Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: foreigners on the ferry
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:27 pm 
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I understood the logic: Whatever is less polluting than the “foreigners commuting on the ferries” should be accepted.


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 Post subject: the baroque on lamma
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:28 pm 
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Marc Antony wrote:
Virtually the entire population of Lamma is foreign - most people come from far away places like Kowloon and Hong Kong. There are only a few hundred truly indigenous people on the island at the most.

Most of HK's population is foreign - they come from other parts of China and Asia. The people trying to sell the Baroque monstrosity are probably foreign. Take away foreigners and HK becomes a fishing village circa 1835 or thereabouts ...


That’s exactly right; and by voting against the Baroque project, you put yourself into the same shoes by law,as the developers in China when they are accused by the western press of robbing the farmers of there land.
The landowners (indigenous people) on Lamma, (called farmers on Mainland)can only lease the land due to land rights to the developer and therefore are in consent with the developer to establishing the Baroque.You can't win,all you can try is put in deeds what the developer should do after he gets the building permission.


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 Post subject: Baroque
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:56 pm 
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I do not think anybody voting here on Lamma against Baroque puts himself/herself in somebody’s shoes in China. There is no relevance between situation in China, western press, robbing farmers of land, etc.
For example, I am opposing Baroque just because it is certainly not for my benefit; in contrary it would take some advantages from my living on Lamma. I also do no perceive this large scale development as a “progress” for whole society on Lamma or even for HK – which is of course my personal opinion only.
For me it is about preserving some bit of nature – a global thing (“glocal” - maybe).
Why do you stay on Lamma Ewald?


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 Post subject: re:Baroque
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:15 pm 
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rambler wrote:
I do not think anybody voting here on Lamma against Baroque puts himself/herself in somebody’s shoes in China. There is no relevance between situation in China, western press, robbing farmers of land, etc.

Indigenous have rights, if you don't respect them you do the same as the press is accusing developers in China, thats a fact!
rambler wrote:
For example, I am opposing Baroque just because it is certainly not for my benefit; in contrary it would take some advantages from my living on Lamma. I also do no perceive this large scale development as a “progress” for whole society on Lamma or even for HK – which is of course my personal opinion only.

fine,as you don't have Napoleonic Roman law like in continental Europe, you will see that the Baroque will get build without your influence towards it.
rambler wrote:
For me it is about preserving some bit of nature – a global thing (“glocal” - maybe).

I have no problem with your view,but with this view you will help to destroy Lamma. You only got a short period now where you can influence the process of the Baroque building permission in your favour and this is not by opposing it.
rambler wrote:
Why do you stay on Lamma Ewald?

I have to stay in HK for some time and Lamma is the best option. Preserving the land etc around me comes with my upbringing on a self sustainable farm ,but my interest in the Lamma project stems from a project in London me vs. the landowner, the queen in the high court and getting the law changed for the benefit of all small shop owners in the uk. In Shanghai I was involved in a similar project as the Lamma ,on an Island where Indigenous people demanded there rights of getting the benefit from the developers after the Hotel restaurant etc was build,but did not bring the benefit projected and how the Standing Comity of Shanghai handled the case was deeply and positive impressive to me.
I am interested how Common law deriving from Magna Carta correlates with old traditional Chinese law and land laws for farmers and indigenous people give me directions to understand, there is no literature. In short I am an advocate of changing the European system deriving from Napoleonic and Roman law. Basically I think the Continental European understanding regarding law has to be changed to prevent future wars on the Eurasian continent.....and thats why I stay on Lamma to think about it...


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 Post subject: Re: baroque on lamma
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:47 pm 
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ewald wrote:
It would be nice if you could stop accusations I only know from big loosers,
its not versing,indegineous have land titles,forigeners perhaps have leases only and that makes the difference.


it would be nice if you could stop talking about "foreigners" and Indigenous" people and trying to put them in opposition.

And NOBODY in Hong Kong owns land. Everyone, indigenous or not, is on a lease.
The "indigenous" occupants are granted long term agricultural leases. They don't have the right to develop it as they wish. If the government had any balls they would simply cancel the leases of people who aren't using the land for the purpose it was leased, but they are in the pocket of the DAB who have the numbers in LegCo.

The "indigenous" people in the New Territories are a very privileged class and it is absurd to compare them to the poor farmers in China who can be thrown off their land with few formalities. But even they do not have unrestricted title to land.


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 Post subject: Baroque
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:53 pm 
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I do not understand what you mean by saying “Indigenous have rights, if you don't respect them..”
Looks like you keep suggesting the argue about Baroque is between local developers/land leasing farmers against some small group of expats.

I think it is wrong. The “farmers” are likely operating from Canada or Australia. The developers are from Mainland or UK. We do not know where from is the investment capital.

I do not deny anybody’s rights. I just think the project is a result of global financial operations that are working for themselves, for benefit of few, with disregard to local needs, not to mention preservation of our environment.

I also do not understand what way my view will “help to destroy Lamma”. You mean destroy business, destroy social stability, destroy environment? Destroy what?

On 16th Oct. I could see a large crowd cleaning the beach at the Baroque area. I did not carry out any poll, yet as far as I understand, these are the people attracted by the discussion on Baroque and who support preserving this coast in its natural state.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:30 pm 
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ewald,
the main developer behind The Baroque is Agile Holdings, a HK-listed Mainland-based company. How can you compare them to poor farmers that are being evicted from their land in China??? Agile is exactly the kind of developers that Chinese farmers are fighting against! You shouldn't talk about land justice when you ignore basic facts about The Baroque.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:13 am 
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I've known a few eastern europeans and they generally seem to be racist although that's not a rule.\

One guy used to spam me with racist stuff about Obama, he also sent me pictures of Kittens.

I don't think they are particularly malicious its just the culture is mentally very backward and insular.


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