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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:58 pm 
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Cargo blocking main exits on HKKF Central-Yung Shue Wan ferry, 4:30, Friday, May 10

I just got off the HKKF ferry from Central. It was delayed 45 minutes because, just as we were about to leave Central, passengers complained about cargo blocking the stairs from the upper deck to the lower deck and the two main exits. The cargo mainly consisted of four large bookshelf-like cabinets. When passengers complained, HKKF initially failed to react. Passengers said the ferry could not depart without the exits first being cleared. After about 15 minutes of inaction, passengers called the police. The police eventually arrived and persuaded HKKF and the owner of the cargo to remove the cargo blocking the stairway and exits.

I am concerned that HKKF is not taking the safety of passengers seriously. HKKF should not have allowed the cargo on in the first place, and once it had been put on the boat, should have removed it promptly following passenger complaints. Many people took photos and videos. I hope those with photos and videos will post them here.

I asked the police at the Central Ferry Pier to investigate the matter as a criminal incident, as it is against the law to block exits on ferries. The police said they were powerless to do so and referred me to the Marine Police. Upon returning home, I called the Marine Police and emphasized the gravity of the matter. They promised to investigate and get back to me.

We arrived at the Yung Shue Wan ferry pier at 5:40, one hour and ten minutes after scheduled departure. Yu Lai Fan was waiting there. She had apparently been alerted. She said she would look into the matter and speak with HKKF.

My impression was that neither HKKF or the police took the incident as seriously they should have, especially after October 1 last year. I was on the Sea Smooth that crashed into Lamma IV. When I got off the ferry at Yung Shue Wan after the crash, I tried to speak with the police at the Yung Shue Wan ferry pier. They were not interested in speaking with me because, as they said, it was not a criminal incident, and at any rate, I should speak with the Marine Police. They did not attempt to refer to me to the Marine Police or contact the Marine Police themselves. That was an incident in which 39 people died and eventually criminal charges were filed against both captains; in other words, it was a criminal matter. Now, once again, the police at the scene do not take the matter seriously enough.

I have also contacted SCMP. They don't seem too interested in covering it. I'm trying to figure out how else to approach the matter. If anyone has any good ideas, please let me know.

That 4:30 ferry is full of schoolkids. You'd think the company would take their safety seriously. It appears it's not. I think we as Lamma residents need to be active in advocating for ourselves.


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 Post subject: ferry
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:19 pm 
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The 5.40 was, according to the sign at the pier 'out of order' ! Yes it was out of order having to wait for the 6.00! lots of shelves on that one too!


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:32 pm 
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No worries, if the ferry sinks, these doors will be useless anyway.

You are over-reacting. The company can also be forced to start refusing legitimate oversized cargo, such as furniture, which will be ridiculous.


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:29 pm 
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Anton wrote:
No worries, if the ferry sinks, these doors will be useless anyway.

You are over-reacting. The company can also be forced to start refusing legitimate oversized cargo, such as furniture, which will be ridiculous.


I don't think you are right. These doors and two narrow doors on the upper deck are the only exit for around 300 people! You can not ignore that. The chance for collision/sinking is may be very small but the consequences can be so dire. That is why the rules are there, that may even look ridiculous, e.g. watertight compartments, who cares.

By the way. What is "legitimate oversized cargo"?


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:58 pm 
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rambler wrote:
the rules are there, that may even look ridiculous, e.g. who cares.


Nobody who travels on a ferry would ever say "who cares about watertight compartments". That was someone in a nice dry office wondering if they could get away with cutting some corners.

I was on the 5:20 yesterday, which left at about 5:30. I had wondered what was going on, assumed some problem with an earlier ferry. Then I saw the huge shelves on the YSW pier. Looks like for a shop rather than a flat.

"Oversized cargo" should be carried on the daily cargo kaido. Certainly not a peaktime ferry like the 4:30, full of schoolkids.


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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 12:24 pm 
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I am also very concerned about that went on the ferry and HKKF inability to deal with the issues without police being called. As with all cases like this there are a range of viewpoints and I agree we do not want to be in a position as residents where we cannot transport larger items on the ferry. This issue was not really the size of the items individually, the ferry left with two bookcases safely contained and secured in the hold area. The issue was the quantity of cargo and blockage of exits and stairwells. I would take issue with the opinion that it is ok to block one of the watertight doors, it is not, as indicated by the green exit signs they are legally designated exits that must be kept clear and form part of the boats public licence. The crew who directed passengers to block exits with cargo seem unaware of this. Furthermore the captain has duty of care to ensure safe operation of the vessel, he does have the legal power to enforce safety legislation, but it appears is operating in a corporate culture that does not allow him to so.
I have complained directly to HKKF who have opened a case file on this. Jennifer from SCMP has also contact me and is attempting to file a story on this incident. Below is the complaint emailed to HKKF on 11 May

If you have pictures of what went on please send them to Jennifer Ngo at SCMP jennifer.ngo@scmp.com and post them on this forum.

Other people you might want to email are
HKKF info@hkkf.com.hk
Hong Kong Marine Department. sspax@mardep.gov.hk
ipro@mardep.gov.hk
mdenquiry@mardep.gov.uk

Our local councillor on lamma island. Ms Yu Lai-Fan
laifanyu@gmail.com

Sitting on the side lines and not making a fuss is all very well, but perhaps 39 people today would be alive and happy if a few more of us stood up said something when lives are placed in danger, pubic pressure can and will change things for the better. Please be active in this matter.



Dear sir

I wish to lodge a formal complaint which has also been lodged with the Hong Kong marine department regarding ongoing safety concerns with your ferry operations, management and lines of communication / decision hierarchy.

As I am sure you and the Hong Kong police are aware the Hong Kong to Lamma 1630 ferry on 10 May 2013 was delayed by 40 minutes as your passengers were forced to protest about large amounts of heavy oversized cargo being transported on the ferry which blocked emergency exits and the lower stair well on the ferry captained by coxswain Cheung Po Man CX001. I am concerned about several issues with you company and its operations and would welcome your reply so that it may be considered by the Marine Department.

1. Emergency exits and stair wells on the ferry were blocked by cargo at the specific instruction of the crew.
2. For safety reasons the company did not permit carriage of the large bookcases on the 15.50 ferry.
3. The large bookcases were around 1.5 meters tall and could only be moved by at least two people therefore were inappropriate for a ferry of this size.
4. At no point did the captain, his crew or the management intervene to ensure the safety of passengers or compliance with Hong Kong Marine Law.
5. After several warnings by passengers the police were called to resolve the issue which the companies incompetent management were unable to do.
6. There was clear intent to sail the vessel by the crew and place passengers in immediate risk in the event of an accident.
7. There were large numbers of children on the boat who emergency exit would have been restricted by the 5 or so heavy bookcases weighing upwards of 30 Kgs each. This cargo would have had the potential to shift and pin passengers and children down should the ferry have become unstable in a collision event. Please note shifting seats pinning passengers down on the sunken ferry were identified by Hong Kong courts as a contributory factor to the fatalities suffered.
8. Furthermore the bookcases would have restricted access to the storage area containing the child life vests therefore contravening Hong Kong law which requires reasonable access for all passengers child size life vests.
9. Mobility and vision impaired passengers would also have been placed at particular risk which you have a duty of care to ensure the safety of as a public licensed ferry operator.
10. Line of communication, decision making and responsibility. This is perhaps of the greatest concern and may in part explain why one of your boats were involved in a fatal ferry crash. No member of your company were prepared to enforce Hong Kong law, no one was able to make a quick decision to remove the offending items, no one assumed over all responsibility for the incident. The captain who has over all legal responsibility for safety on his ship was either unable or unwilling to take action either himself or by a delegated party. There are severe concerns regarding the corporate culture and attitude to safety related decisions.


I am sure I do not need to draw to you attention the media storm regarding your company and the fatal crash which one of your captains is facing manslaughter charges.

I have date and location stamped photos and videos of the incident which I am happy to discuss with you. Please not the location and date stamps on these photos are required by Hong Kong law for consideration in a court of law.

Would you be so kind as to supply me with a full report of the incident from the Coxswain and managers who dealt with this issue. I also require a copy the companies terms and conditions for carriage of cargo, if this does not exit please explain why there are no such guidelines to ensure passenger safety. .

I await you prompt reply and outline of actions your company will take before this email is forwarded to the Hong Kong Marine department.


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 Post subject: Dangerous cargo
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Ask yourself these questions.

1. how much longer would it take to evacuate the ferry in a fire or sinking scenario with these cargo items.
2. How would children, parents etc access the child life vest compartments.
3. Would the objects help or hinder the evacuation protocol that the HKKF staff have hopefully been trained in.
4. Imagine being in the staircase if the boat is full with smoke and or in darkness with these obstructions.
5. Please also consider the needs of mobility and vision impaired passengers
6. In a collision incident would the cargo items remain stable or shift / fall potentially trapping passengers? Look carefully at the child size compartments on the bookcase that could trap a child underneath (two adults struggled to move these book cases).

Then after having answered these simple questions think again. Does this matter to me? Do I have a responsibility to myself to say something or should I just ignore it.


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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:43 pm 
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Excellent work Lamma Air.

Cargo of this size should be brought on a cargo boat, not a public ferry.

The only way anything will change is if ferry users stand up like this. Lives are at stake as we are all so painfully aware since the tragic crash last October.

If anybody else is going to take this kind of action, one big question is what kind of training and professional development do the ferry staff receive? It is dangerous and illegal to block exits. This is very basic stuff and surely should be a primary responsibility of the staff. It is the company's responsibility to ensure that their staff are properly trained in marine safety.

Please keep us informed of any progress on this matter. Thank you


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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:39 pm 
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(C) SCMP today:

Passengers stop overloaded ferry from sailing

Hong Kong and Kowloon Ferry vessel had both exits blocked with cargo, so police were called


Saturday, 11 May, 2013, 5:32am - Jennifer Ngo jennifer.ngo@scmp.com

Photo (see above): A large amount of cargo - including four bookcases - was loaded onto the ferry, blocking the emergency exits. Photo: SCMP

Pull-out quote: "I'm concerned that months after [the fatal crash] the HKKF is still not taking the safety of passengers seriously


Safety on board a vessel belonging to the ferry company involved in last year's deadly sea collision came under fire again yesterday, as angry passengers stopped the boat from leaving the dock because it was clogged with cargo.

The Hong Kong and Kowloon Ferry Company vessel was about to depart on the 4.30pm sailing from Central to Lamma Island when passengers complained that cargo was blocking the exits.

Police were called and some of the cargo was removed before the ferry sailed.

It was on the same route as that sailed by the Sea Smooth, which collided with the Hongkong Electric boat Lamma IV with the loss of 39 lives on October 1 last year.

Passenger Brian Kern, who was on the Sea Smooth at the time of the collision, said later he still had an upset stomach about yesterday's incident - "and I'm not someone who gets upset easily". "I'm concerned that months after [the fatal crash] the HKKF is still not taking the safety of passengers seriously."

Exits on both sides of the ferry's lower deck, as well as the stairway leading to the upper deck, were blocked by four large bookcases and other smaller boxes.

Kern said the police were called when the owner of the cargo refused to remove any of it and the ferry crew could do nothing even after two managers arrived.

Even the police said it was outside their jurisdiction, but the owner eventually agreed to remove two of the bookcases and the ferry sailed.

Another complaining passenger, secondary school teacher Peter Sims, said the passengers included numerous children on their way home from school.

"The crew has the legal responsibility for our safety under Hong Kong law," Sims said. "But they were happy to put us and the children in danger."

He said the incident showed that the company had not changed its policies or its management structure after the crash.

A spokeswoman said the employee selling cargo tickets was new on the job, and miscalculated the amount that the ferry could hold. She said that if there was cargo blocking the exits, the ferry would definitely not depart.

The police confirmed that officers were dispatched to deal with the case, but that it was resolved and did not need further follow-up.

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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:48 pm 
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Just received a quick reply from HKKF, 5:40pm on a Sat, after alerting them to this forum yesterday evening, asking for feedback. The unedited email from their PR rep:

"Thanks for your kindly information. Safety is our most concern so serious investigation has been conducted. It is believed that our common interest is to ensure safe sailing. Relevant reports and followed-up actions will be sent to our earliest extent possible. We feel sorry for the convenience caused."

I'll be chasing them for follow-up but I expect it to take quite some time...

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 Post subject: lamma ferry
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 10:01 am 
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Lamma Gung thanks for posting the SCMP article on this forum. I was on the ferry and there was clear intent to sail with the exits blocked. The actual problem here is the management structure and decision making process of the company. Nobody from the company intervened it was down to the passengers. The crew directed passengers to place cargo at the exits as well, i have video of them doing this. The managers were incapable or unprepared to resolve the situation. Further to the statement from HKKF saying the ferry would never have sailed with the exits blocked many people will tell you the ferry has sailed with the exits blocked although not to the extent we saw on Friday. I think we need a clear statement from HKKF regarding terms and conditions of cargo carriage and whom has responsibility on the boat for ensuring exits are not blocked. Also I am not sure that the employee who sold the tickets in the first place new and lastly passengers informed me the cargo owner tried to get the cargo on the 15.50 ferry.
As you can see the photos below show the exits have been blocked in the past, although not to the same extent. There were other occasions but I did not take photos.


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 Post subject: email sent to SCMP
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 10:22 am 
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Here is an email sent to SCMP requesting follow up on Fridays incident.

Thanks for getting a news story out on the Lamma ferry incident. It would be great if we can have some follow up on this. Perhaps HKKF staff
HKKF staff can explain why the cargo was allowed on in the first place, they do have the power to stop what they see as dangerous cargo as divers who live on the island with compressed air bottles will tell you. The crew who do have delegated responsibility from the captain to ensure safety directed passengers to place items blocking the exits, this is in compete contrast to the company statement issued on Saturday. There was also full intent to sail as the crew member in charge of the door has started to raise it before passengers stepped in. There have also been other, although less extreme cases of the exits being blocked (see above).

Not one member of staff from HKKF felt able to intervene before the police were called, were they too scared to due to authoritarian top down management or simply incompetent and ineffectual management? One must ask the question were the staff on the fateful boat also sacred or unable to intervene and state the obvious, that the boats were too close and risks were being taken? On our ferry it it was a 14 year old child who summed it up so well "What's the point of those stupid safety commercials if they block the exits" Sometimes it takes a child to see the "elephant in the room"


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:39 pm 
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Ok have done some more digging around this time on the companies web site and public notices regarding freight.
Firstly the 16.30 ferry is deemed a service that only small amounts of cargo can be carried on (see file below). I assume the reason being there are large numbers of people on this ferry. Likewise the 17.40 has the same regulation so I would like to hear from anyone of the 17:40 if large items were carried.

Secondly referring to Notice to freight ticket. Clause 2 " Advanced booking is required for carriage of large sized or large quantity of freight. To carry or not, the decision of our company is final" Therefore the managers who arrived and were powerless to deal with the situation in fact do have the power under clause 2 Notice to freight ticket.
'
Thirdly. Notice to Ferry Passengers clause 6 sentence 2 "Freight service is only available on stated schedules" (the 16:30 service has limited freight provision as stated by the company. Therefore the member of staff who sold the ticket and their line manager should be subject to disciplinary procedures and be retrained.

Furthermore clause 6 sentence 3 " Our company reserved the right of provision for such service [carriage of freight].

I would suggest that by allowing sale of freight ticket the company were in violation of their own procedures and regulations. Specifically the captain who effectively by inaction authorized the ship to sail in a dangerous state and also broke company procedure. The captain should be subject to disciplinary procedures and be retrained.

The crew by giving instructions of where to place the cargo were also acknowledging and authorising the cargo to be bought onto the ship and therefore they should be subject to disciplinary procedures and be retrained.

Likewise the attending senior managers also broke company regulations for the same reasons outlined above. They should also be subject to disciplinary procedures and be retrained.

I would welcome a statement by HKKF outlining their procedures for calculating freight capacity as stated in the public statement made on Saturday.


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File comment: timetable which refers to the 1630 service as a limited freight service.
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File comment: Notes to ferry passengers.
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File comment: the 1630 ferry as indicated by * is a limited cargo service.
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File comment: the 1630 ferry is a limited cargo service.
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 3:25 pm 
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it's Heartwarming to see you put into practice dr. Mandela's advice to "be the change you want to see in the World."


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:02 pm 
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I was a passenger on the ferry in question and have to thank the gentleman who started what was initially a one man crusade. It was great to then see other passengers, both locals and expats also get involved in this ridiculous situation.

The following day I was on the 12 noon ferry back to Lamma and only when I got off did I realize that the door was blocked by La Rose Noire boxes. Had I noticed this before we had set off then I would have spoken to the crew, I did however speak to the ticket office staff in Lamma who said they would 'take a look'. I didnt stick around to see the outcome due to a hungry baby and couldnt take a photo as my phone was out of battery. I just couldnt believe the stupidity just a day after the incident.

Once again many thanks to the gentleman who made it his business to inform passengers upstairs, such as myself, that we were about to sail in such conditions.


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:08 pm 
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Dear Milan as most people have guessed I am that gentleman you refer to. Thanks for you kind words. I would encourage all passengers to take photos of any health and safety violations they see. Post them on this forum and send them to HKKF, SCMP and the Marine Department. We can make our ferries safer for us and our children. I am asking for a formal meeting with the marine department and going to invite the management of HKKF to attend.

Thank you again for you kind words.


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 9:35 pm 
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lamma air wrote:
Thank you again for you kind words.


Thank you!


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:33 am 
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Again another example of HKKF breaking the law. Hong Kong law requires the names of crew and the captains licence number to be displayed for public viewing. Today on the Sea Serene this was not the case. So what other laws have the decided to disregard? Ignoring the law and passing the buck seems to be the way this company operates.

Here is the photos less and nameless crew board on the Sea Serene, why are the crew names not displayed?


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File comment: Who is looking after our safety on this boat? Who should we hold accountable?
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:30 am 
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First, I believe that the note "only small quantity of freight can be carried" refers to the fact that the ferry has a short stop and so there's limited time to load the stuff. It's not like the ferry shrinks on these sailings. As long as you can load the cargo quickly, who cares.

You know, if HKKF were to enforce all the rules, we wouldn't be able to do many things, like standing up before the ferry arrives.

They've already set up this ridiculous, annoying announcements and TVs in response to criticism that they were not "conducting safety training" for passengers. Now you want them to pick on every passenger with cargo, and they will respond in the same blunt, "fuck-off'" way, simply by prohibiting some cargo or something like that.


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:09 am 
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Back in the HYF days, they had the same rules, but then it was that the big, 3-deck ferries were for freight, and the smaller, "fast" ones not.

HKKF kept the same rules, but all the ferries were 2-deck and not that different in size, so the distinction became between peak and off-peak.

It's just absurd if the staff claimed they don't have the authority to tell the shipper to move or unload the goods. Of course they do.

I'm sure they would have no compunction in telling me to move my stuff.
Who was the shipper? Some local triad businessman to have the staff so cowed?


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