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| Cargo blocking main exits on HKKF Central-YSW ferry http://lamma.com.hk/forum-OK/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=13083 |
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| Author: | 草民 [ Fri May 10, 2013 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Cargo blocking main exits on HKKF Central-YSW ferry |
| Author: | defensive tulip [ Fri May 10, 2013 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | ferry |
The 5.40 was, according to the sign at the pier 'out of order' ! Yes it was out of order having to wait for the 6.00! lots of shelves on that one too! |
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| Author: | Anton [ Fri May 10, 2013 9:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cargo blocking main exits on HKKF Central-YSW ferry |
No worries, if the ferry sinks, these doors will be useless anyway. You are over-reacting. The company can also be forced to start refusing legitimate oversized cargo, such as furniture, which will be ridiculous. |
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| Author: | rambler [ Fri May 10, 2013 11:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cargo blocking main exits on HKKF Central-YSW ferry |
| Author: | Alan [ Fri May 10, 2013 11:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cargo blocking main exits on HKKF Central-YSW ferry |
| Author: | lamma air [ Sat May 11, 2013 12:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | lamma ferry oversized items. |
| Author: | lamma air [ Sat May 11, 2013 12:57 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Dangerous cargo | ||
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| Author: | soulkitchen [ Sat May 11, 2013 2:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Excellent work Lamma Air. Cargo of this size should be brought on a cargo boat, not a public ferry. The only way anything will change is if ferry users stand up like this. Lives are at stake as we are all so painfully aware since the tragic crash last October. If anybody else is going to take this kind of action, one big question is what kind of training and professional development do the ferry staff receive? It is dangerous and illegal to block exits. This is very basic stuff and surely should be a primary responsibility of the staff. It is the company's responsibility to ensure that their staff are properly trained in marine safety. Please keep us informed of any progress on this matter. Thank you |
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| Author: | Lamma-Gung [ Sat May 11, 2013 5:39 pm ] |
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(C) SCMP today: Passengers stop overloaded ferry from sailing Hong Kong and Kowloon Ferry vessel had both exits blocked with cargo, so police were called Saturday, 11 May, 2013, 5:32am - Jennifer Ngo jennifer.ngo@scmp.com Photo (see above): A large amount of cargo - including four bookcases - was loaded onto the ferry, blocking the emergency exits. Photo: SCMP Pull-out quote: "I'm concerned that months after [the fatal crash] the HKKF is still not taking the safety of passengers seriously Safety on board a vessel belonging to the ferry company involved in last year's deadly sea collision came under fire again yesterday, as angry passengers stopped the boat from leaving the dock because it was clogged with cargo. The Hong Kong and Kowloon Ferry Company vessel was about to depart on the 4.30pm sailing from Central to Lamma Island when passengers complained that cargo was blocking the exits. Police were called and some of the cargo was removed before the ferry sailed. It was on the same route as that sailed by the Sea Smooth, which collided with the Hongkong Electric boat Lamma IV with the loss of 39 lives on October 1 last year. Passenger Brian Kern, who was on the Sea Smooth at the time of the collision, said later he still had an upset stomach about yesterday's incident - "and I'm not someone who gets upset easily". "I'm concerned that months after [the fatal crash] the HKKF is still not taking the safety of passengers seriously." Exits on both sides of the ferry's lower deck, as well as the stairway leading to the upper deck, were blocked by four large bookcases and other smaller boxes. Kern said the police were called when the owner of the cargo refused to remove any of it and the ferry crew could do nothing even after two managers arrived. Even the police said it was outside their jurisdiction, but the owner eventually agreed to remove two of the bookcases and the ferry sailed. Another complaining passenger, secondary school teacher Peter Sims, said the passengers included numerous children on their way home from school. "The crew has the legal responsibility for our safety under Hong Kong law," Sims said. "But they were happy to put us and the children in danger." He said the incident showed that the company had not changed its policies or its management structure after the crash. A spokeswoman said the employee selling cargo tickets was new on the job, and miscalculated the amount that the ferry could hold. She said that if there was cargo blocking the exits, the ferry would definitely not depart. The police confirmed that officers were dispatched to deal with the case, but that it was resolved and did not need further follow-up. |
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| Author: | Lamma-Gung [ Sat May 11, 2013 5:48 pm ] |
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Just received a quick reply from HKKF, 5:40pm on a Sat, after alerting them to this forum yesterday evening, asking for feedback. The unedited email from their PR rep: "Thanks for your kindly information. Safety is our most concern so serious investigation has been conducted. It is believed that our common interest is to ensure safe sailing. Relevant reports and followed-up actions will be sent to our earliest extent possible. We feel sorry for the convenience caused." I'll be chasing them for follow-up but I expect it to take quite some time... |
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| Author: | lamma air [ Sun May 12, 2013 10:01 am ] | ||||
| Post subject: | lamma ferry | ||||
Lamma Gung thanks for posting the SCMP article on this forum. I was on the ferry and there was clear intent to sail with the exits blocked. The actual problem here is the management structure and decision making process of the company. Nobody from the company intervened it was down to the passengers. The crew directed passengers to place cargo at the exits as well, i have video of them doing this. The managers were incapable or unprepared to resolve the situation. Further to the statement from HKKF saying the ferry would never have sailed with the exits blocked many people will tell you the ferry has sailed with the exits blocked although not to the extent we saw on Friday. I think we need a clear statement from HKKF regarding terms and conditions of cargo carriage and whom has responsibility on the boat for ensuring exits are not blocked. Also I am not sure that the employee who sold the tickets in the first place new and lastly passengers informed me the cargo owner tried to get the cargo on the 15.50 ferry. As you can see the photos below show the exits have been blocked in the past, although not to the same extent. There were other occasions but I did not take photos.
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| Author: | lamma air [ Sun May 12, 2013 10:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | email sent to SCMP |
Here is an email sent to SCMP requesting follow up on Fridays incident. Thanks for getting a news story out on the Lamma ferry incident. It would be great if we can have some follow up on this. Perhaps HKKF staff HKKF staff can explain why the cargo was allowed on in the first place, they do have the power to stop what they see as dangerous cargo as divers who live on the island with compressed air bottles will tell you. The crew who do have delegated responsibility from the captain to ensure safety directed passengers to place items blocking the exits, this is in compete contrast to the company statement issued on Saturday. There was also full intent to sail as the crew member in charge of the door has started to raise it before passengers stepped in. There have also been other, although less extreme cases of the exits being blocked (see above). Not one member of staff from HKKF felt able to intervene before the police were called, were they too scared to due to authoritarian top down management or simply incompetent and ineffectual management? One must ask the question were the staff on the fateful boat also sacred or unable to intervene and state the obvious, that the boats were too close and risks were being taken? On our ferry it it was a 14 year old child who summed it up so well "What's the point of those stupid safety commercials if they block the exits" Sometimes it takes a child to see the "elephant in the room" |
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| Author: | lamma air [ Sun May 12, 2013 1:39 pm ] | ||||||
| Post subject: | terms and conditions of cargo on HKKF boats. | ||||||
Ok have done some more digging around this time on the companies web site and public notices regarding freight. Firstly the 16.30 ferry is deemed a service that only small amounts of cargo can be carried on (see file below). I assume the reason being there are large numbers of people on this ferry. Likewise the 17.40 has the same regulation so I would like to hear from anyone of the 17:40 if large items were carried. Secondly referring to Notice to freight ticket. Clause 2 " Advanced booking is required for carriage of large sized or large quantity of freight. To carry or not, the decision of our company is final" Therefore the managers who arrived and were powerless to deal with the situation in fact do have the power under clause 2 Notice to freight ticket. ' Thirdly. Notice to Ferry Passengers clause 6 sentence 2 "Freight service is only available on stated schedules" (the 16:30 service has limited freight provision as stated by the company. Therefore the member of staff who sold the ticket and their line manager should be subject to disciplinary procedures and be retrained. Furthermore clause 6 sentence 3 " Our company reserved the right of provision for such service [carriage of freight]. I would suggest that by allowing sale of freight ticket the company were in violation of their own procedures and regulations. Specifically the captain who effectively by inaction authorized the ship to sail in a dangerous state and also broke company procedure. The captain should be subject to disciplinary procedures and be retrained. The crew by giving instructions of where to place the cargo were also acknowledging and authorising the cargo to be bought onto the ship and therefore they should be subject to disciplinary procedures and be retrained. Likewise the attending senior managers also broke company regulations for the same reasons outlined above. They should also be subject to disciplinary procedures and be retrained. I would welcome a statement by HKKF outlining their procedures for calculating freight capacity as stated in the public statement made on Saturday.
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| Author: | __________ [ Sun May 12, 2013 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
it's Heartwarming to see you put into practice dr. Mandela's advice to "be the change you want to see in the World." |
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| Author: | Milan [ Sun May 12, 2013 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I was a passenger on the ferry in question and have to thank the gentleman who started what was initially a one man crusade. It was great to then see other passengers, both locals and expats also get involved in this ridiculous situation. The following day I was on the 12 noon ferry back to Lamma and only when I got off did I realize that the door was blocked by La Rose Noire boxes. Had I noticed this before we had set off then I would have spoken to the crew, I did however speak to the ticket office staff in Lamma who said they would 'take a look'. I didnt stick around to see the outcome due to a hungry baby and couldnt take a photo as my phone was out of battery. I just couldnt believe the stupidity just a day after the incident. Once again many thanks to the gentleman who made it his business to inform passengers upstairs, such as myself, that we were about to sail in such conditions. |
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| Author: | lamma air [ Sun May 12, 2013 8:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Dear Milan as most people have guessed I am that gentleman you refer to. Thanks for you kind words. I would encourage all passengers to take photos of any health and safety violations they see. Post them on this forum and send them to HKKF, SCMP and the Marine Department. We can make our ferries safer for us and our children. I am asking for a formal meeting with the marine department and going to invite the management of HKKF to attend. Thank you again for you kind words. |
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| Author: | __________ [ Sun May 12, 2013 9:35 pm ] |
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| Author: | lamma air [ Mon May 13, 2013 9:33 am ] | ||
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| Author: | Anton [ Tue May 14, 2013 6:30 am ] |
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First, I believe that the note "only small quantity of freight can be carried" refers to the fact that the ferry has a short stop and so there's limited time to load the stuff. It's not like the ferry shrinks on these sailings. As long as you can load the cargo quickly, who cares. You know, if HKKF were to enforce all the rules, we wouldn't be able to do many things, like standing up before the ferry arrives. They've already set up this ridiculous, annoying announcements and TVs in response to criticism that they were not "conducting safety training" for passengers. Now you want them to pick on every passenger with cargo, and they will respond in the same blunt, "fuck-off'" way, simply by prohibiting some cargo or something like that. |
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| Author: | Alan [ Tue May 14, 2013 7:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Back in the HYF days, they had the same rules, but then it was that the big, 3-deck ferries were for freight, and the smaller, "fast" ones not. HKKF kept the same rules, but all the ferries were 2-deck and not that different in size, so the distinction became between peak and off-peak. It's just absurd if the staff claimed they don't have the authority to tell the shipper to move or unload the goods. Of course they do. I'm sure they would have no compunction in telling me to move my stuff. Who was the shipper? Some local triad businessman to have the staff so cowed? |
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