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 Post subject: lets enforce it together
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 8:51 am
Posts: 61
Yes lets hope they do enforce it, but it is also for us as ferry users to ensure its enforced. Support the crew to enforce the rules. Remember the captain is responsible for safety on the ferry not the ferry company. If he is bullied by managers or pushy ferry users into breaking the rules he needs us to support him.

Remember both captains of the fateful vessels are in the dock defending themselves.

If you stand by and remain neutral you are saying it is OK to block the exits.


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 Post subject: Still blocking exits -
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:42 pm 
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today - 11am from Central


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Posts: 5045
Location: Tai Peng
These exits aren't emergency exits.

The gangway exits are only used when tied up to a pier, and obviously they know which side they will be using so the other side is free.
I can't think of a situation in which it would actually be dangerous.

Notice the green "running man" signs indicating the way to the emergency exits.
In an emergency, if you get out at all, it'd be through the front, back or a window.
If you wait in front of that door, boxes or not, you'll be sleeping with the fishes.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:39 pm 
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Dear Alan you are correct these exits you refer to are not emergency exits. However the cmo have clarified to me that all available exits must be clear at all times. Hkkf new policy also stipulates that cargo must be contained within the cargo area and each item to be carried by adult hands. These regulations are defined and specified by the license and franchise terms and conditions by which Hkkf are bound. The law is very specific on this and the documents are available to the public upon request.


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 Post subject: Blocked exits
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Dear Jason. Thanks for posting this photo. I have passed it on to tellme@1823.gov.hk. Please can you e mail tellme@1823.gov.hk with this photo. We are starting to build a good legal case now especially in light of the new Hkkf policy and statements from the cmo As you can see this is commercial stock and not an ordinary Lamma resident moving house


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:45 pm 
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Location: Tai Peng
So it has nothing to do with safety, yet you will make a complaint anyway.

Every one one of us breaks the letter of the law every day.

What are you trying to achieve?

Building a "good legal case"? To what end?

To force HKKF to stop carrying any goods? That would be really disruptive for everyone who lives here.

We're the ones who will pay the costs And we won't be a bit safer.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:06 pm 
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Dear Alan

Thanks for your feedback as always it is respected and valued. Again I take onboard your comments and can see your point of view. The thing is the line has to be drawn in the sand. Exactly where will boil down to petty detail as you point out. However I disagree this is about safety which does have a legal framework which acts as a reference point for cases of dispute. If the cmo said the exits can be blocked I will stop and defer to their better judgement. . But they have said the exits should not be blocked as have Hkkf themselves.


Last edited by lamma air on Fri May 24, 2013 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 4:56 am 
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Location: Pak Kok Village
4:30pm ferry YSW-Central, Thu, May 23, upper deck outside.

This weather damage affects basically all the 2 left-most and right-most rows of outdoor seats on this ferry. These are the seats with the best views on the entire boat which were left unoccupied, of course. Probably quite a surprise to weekend visitors looking for a great view.

Not being a frequent "upper class"/outside passengers myself, do some of the other HKKF ferries look in similar bad shape?


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 11:34 am 
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Lamma-Gung wrote:
(C) SCMP today:

Passengers stop overloaded ferry from sailing

Hong Kong and Kowloon Ferry vessel had both exits blocked with cargo, so police were called


Saturday, 11 May, 2013, 5:32am - Jennifer Ngo jennifer.ngo@scmp.com

Photo (see above): A large amount of cargo - including four bookcases - was loaded onto the ferry, blocking the emergency exits. Photo: SCMP

Pull-out quote: "I'm concerned that months after [the fatal crash] the HKKF is still not taking the safety of passengers seriously


Dear Lamma Gung

If the latest pictures are true of cargo blocking the exits after the "new" policy issued on the 16 May I am even ore worried about HKKF. They appear to be a company that are less than honest and ignore our concerns. They then issue policies in response to our concerns just to ignore them. OK there are two sides to the cargo issue, some people feel it is OK to block the exits. However the Marine department have told me unofficially "All exits must be kept clear at all time". This is supported by press releases from the Transport and Housing Office and HKKF own policy dated 16 May 2013. There are problems with this company and its corporate culture. They have said to you they are willing to work with us to improve safety, which they appear unprepared to do so. They have made press statement that are questionable such as the "new employee" that over estimated the cargo capacity. They have also said to the press the ferry would not sail with exits blocked, but as we have seen it is sailing with exits blocked even after this statement and the new company policy. The real worry is what other risks are they taking, what other policies are they ignoring, what other lies are they telling us. Sometimes I think the ferry company must think we would not follow these things up. Well there are several members of our community who are. So I would like to work with HKKF to improve safety.


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 Post subject: This from Rthk may 21st
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 2:01 pm 
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The Transport Secretary Anthony Cheung says he hopes a new steering committee tasked with reforming the Marine Department, will help to restore public confidence in marine safety following last year's deadly Lamma Island ferry disaster.
Speaking after the committee's first meeting, Professor Cheung said members will first focus on vessel safety, and come up with recommendations in four to six months.

He noted earlier findings by an independent inquiry that found that the Marine Department had made a litany of errors that contributed to the ferry disaster, in which 39 people died, and said the committee will address these shortcomings head on.

Professor Cheung also said an internal investigation is being conducted to see if any government officers should be held accountable for the tragedy.

He said if any officers were found to have been involved in malpractice or misconduct they would be dealt with in accordance with civil service procedures including disciplinary proceedings.

"Should the internal inquiry discover that there is any criminal issues then of course the case will be referred to the relevant law enforcement agencies," Professor Cheung said.

The collision took place off Lamma Island on October 1st last year involving a Hong Kong Electric company boat the Lamma Four and a Hong Kong and Kowloon ferry the Sea Smooth.

Families of the victims in the disaster issued an open letter last week criticising the government for not taking their concerns seriously.

They also said the Chief Executive C Y Leung had been bureaucratic when replying their questions. But Professor Cheung reiterated that the government was highly concerned about the matter.

He also noted that the Director of Marine, Francis Liu, had already apologized for the accident.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:02 pm 
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This was sent to 1833 today regarding HKKF ignoring their new policy and what I thought was boats far too close to each other on the 0720 service from YSW to central.

I would love to hear from you if you saw how close we got to the tug boat puling the Turbo Jet Ferry in to Shun Tak, especially if you think that we were not too close as I may have seen or perceived it incorrectly.


Further to case 1-427619469
I was was very pleased to see HKKF new policy regarding carriage of cargo dated 16 May 2013. Please see link below.

http://www.lamma.com.hk/nick/imag0002_175.jpg

As you will see the policy is vey specific, I draw to your attention note 3 of the new policy. This policy was issued the public on the 16th May.

However other ferry users have posted evidence on the Lamma public forum which can be seen at

http://www.lamma.com.hk/forum-OK/viewto ... c&start=40

that after this date exits are still being blocked and cargo is being carried that exceed the designated cargo areas. Evidence was posted of this on the above forum on two separate occasions 20 May 2013 and 23 May.

Why after our concerns have been raised and responded to does the company still ignore its own policies?

I have further concern regarding the number of child life preservation devises on the Lamma ferry. The ferry licence states that there are 22 child LPD on board, however there are regularly more than 22 children on the ferry, for services that are used by school children my observations would suggest between 30 and 40 children on the boat. I would ask clarification when "children" should use a child LPD or an adult. Industry regulations suggest this is by the child's height. The law requires a reasonable number of child LPDs to be carried on board. I do not think that 22 child LPDs are a reasonable number given that such large numbers of primary school children use the ferry on a daily basis. Furthermore I think there are no infant LDPs (ie babies in arms), these are very specific devises and not the same as child LPDs.

See this link. http://www.lamma.com.hk/nick/infant_life_jacket_173.gif

Why are there no LPDs for infants on public ferries?

Furthermore I was on board the Sea Spirit 07:20 service from YSW to Central the Sea Spirit came very close i.e. within a few meters of a tug pulling a turbo jet ferry. This near miss occurred in conditions with good visibility just by the Shun Tak centre aprox 07.26 on 27 May 2013. I have the GPS coordinates which are 22.291 N 114.152 E. I would request that the Marine Department look at the radar records to confirm this.

Regards.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 7:12 am 
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Posts: 61
This from scmp 27 may

The director of the Marine Department, Francis Liu Hon-por, on Monday apologised over the deadly Lamma ferry collision – which killed 39 people last October.

Liu said he was very saddened by the accident and gave his first official apology over the tragedy.

“As the head of the department, I sincerely apologise to the victims, the injured people, their families and the public,” he said.

I sincerely apologise to the victims, the injured people, their families and the public
Francis Liu Hon-por, Marine chief
Liu was speaking during a Legislative Council economic affairs panel meeting on Monday morning.

The marine department has come under fire after a commission of inquiry found that “systemic failings” in the department contributed to the collision.

Liu had earlier expressed remorse over the accident, but relatives of the victims slammed Liu for refusing to apologise.

Today’s apology comes almost eight months after the deadly National Day ferry crash.

Earlier this month, relatives of the Lamma Island ferry crash victims publicised a letter they had sent to the chief executive, expressing their anger over Liu’s refusal to apologise for his department’s negligence.

Liu said his apology was ‘delayed’ because he had had to seek legal advice before offering it, as it might have raised “problems”.

But many lawmakers at the meeting criticised Liu’s apology for “coming too late”. A motion – raised by Labour Party’s Fernando Cheung Chiu-hung – expressing their disappointment and regret was passed. It also called on the government to compensate the victims’ families.

The victims’ families have also demanded an independent probe into the department’s failings.


The stricken Lamma IV on the night of the accident. Photo: SCMP

At the same meeting, Secretary for Transport and Housing Anthony Cheung Bing-leung announced that an internal investigation into the collision would no longer be led by the Marine Department.

A permanent secretary from the Transport and Housing Bureau would now head the investigation in response to concerns that it didn’t have the scope necessary to cover the conduct of top officials in the department, Cheung said.

He said he hoped the new arrangement would ease public concerns that the investigation might not be objective.

Thirty-nine ferry passengers were killed in the collision between the Lamma IV and the Sea Smooth off Lamma Island. They were on their way to see the National Day fireworks on October 1 last year.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:58 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:21 pm
Posts: 15
Today on the 8.20am ferry from YSW to Central one of the upstairs doors that lead to the outside seating area was locked. Is this legal? I am pretty sure this is an emergency exit.

Please advise on whether this is in breach of the law.

Thanks


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 Post subject: locked door.
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 1:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 8:51 am
Posts: 61
kingkong wrote:
Today on the 8.20am ferry from YSW to Central one of the upstairs doors that lead to the outside seating area was locked. Is this legal? I am pretty sure this is an emergency exit.

Please advise on whether this is in breach of the law.

Thanks


Yes this illegal, i have seen this door being stuck rather than locked and a good hard push by an adult gets it open but either way it boils down so the same thing.

Please phone 1823 and add this concern to case number 1-427619469 and report this to the HKKF onboard staff. HKKF need to understand we are watching them and insisting on high safety standards.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:47 pm 
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Posts: 15
Everyone who tried to open the door (all adults) were unable to do so. Even it is is jammed, that is still very unsafe in the event of an emergency.

I will write to the contacts you have provided.

Thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:51 pm 
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While we're at it, is there anyway way to prevent VV-assholes from dangerously driving into the crowd on the catwalk every morning, with coffee in one hand?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 9:26 am 
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Posts: 75
Anton wrote:
While we're at it, is there anyway way to prevent VV-assholes from dangerously driving into the crowd on the catwalk every morning, with coffee in one hand?


Many years ago there was a notice outside the Police Post expressly forbidding VVs from using the ferry pier during ferry times. It has of course gone. And there used to be policemen on the ferry pier whenever ferries arrived. Presumably now they're too busy playing mahjong, drinking tea and studying racing form to be bothered.


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 Post subject: Reply from 1823
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 1:02 pm 
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Here is the official reply from 1823. You will see the guidelines are very clear on cargo.

Complaint about overload of ferry from Central to Yung Shue Wan (Case Ref: 1-427619469)

Regarding your above case, Marine Department has provided the reply as follows –

"1. Marine Deparment investigated the case and confirmed that cargo blocked part of a passageway.

2. Cargoes are allowed to be transported on board certain scheduled ferries but the cargoes have to be placed in the designated area. Marine Department has reminded the shipping company that all cargoes have to be placed in the cargo area and cannot block the passageways.

3. After this event, the shipping company hold safety meetings with the ship crew regarding the handling of cargo on board to prevent re-occurance.

4. The shipping company will organize a training class for the terminal staff regarding handling of cargo to prevent re-occurance. "



If you have any enquiry, please contact us at 1823.

Regards,
Peter Cheng
Customer Service Officer
1823

If you see HKKF blocking the exits and you are concerned please tell the boat staff, they have been trained on this one and should move OR remove the cargo at your request. If they do not do this take photos and send the tell 1823, it helps if they know you are doing this. Try to find out the captains name, he has the final say on cargo on his ship regardless (in theory) of what his managers tell him to do.


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 Post subject: Vv concerns
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 10:36 am 
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Anton wrote:
While we're at it, is there anyway way to prevent VV-assholes from dangerously driving into the crowd on the catwalk every morning, with coffee in one hand?


Yes there is a way. Take photos and video and pass them on to 1823. They have to deal withit within 10 days. Let the drivers see you take the photos. When the get questions from the police they will stop. Keep on taking photo and videos and send them to 1823 until it stops. You need to take direct action even if this rocks a few boats if you feel strongly. Having said this for your own welfare I would not suggest to do this. I am sure you can guess why


Last edited by lamma air on Thu May 30, 2013 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vv concerns
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 10:38 am 
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Posts: 75
lamma air wrote:
Anton wrote:
While we're at it, is there anyway way to prevent VV-assholes from dangerously driving into the crowd on the catwalk every morning, with coffee in one hand?


Yes there is a way. Take photos and video and pass them on to 1823. They have to deal withit within 10 days. Let the drivers see you take the photos. When the get questions from the police they will stop. Keep on taking photo and videos and send them to 1823 until it stops. You need to take direct action even if this rocks a few boats


Good luck with that one! Just remind us all which hospital you expect to end up in.


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