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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:42 am 
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exposed! haha. (I didn't mean thaqt way Allan :) )

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I've split this topic into two as the "almost completed" Lammarina/Lamma-1 on Tannery Beach/Nga Kau Wan and the early-planning-stage The Baroque on Lamma in Tung O Wan are two very different projects with different concerns.
I'll open more forum discussions as soon as we know more about their other planned Lamma-based construction projects in Sok Kwu Wan and Mo Tat Wan.

Here's another question from the Living Lamma group that the developer has just answered:

Q 3: Land rights for The Baroque:
How could a private developer build on land that belongs to indigenous villagers in Tung O Wan? Does it mean that indigenous villagers have given up or transferred their property rights? How is that possible under the government's small house policy?

A: The lands for The Baroque projects are deserted and abandoned farm lands. We acquired the lands through legitimate purchases and obtained approval from Government for change of ‘land use’. Therefore, The Baroque is not to be built on residential lands of the indigenous villagers.<HR>
I've met tycoon Bobby Li only once so far, outside the abandoned Mo Tat Wan school, only shaking hands, saying hello and taking a picture, while he was sponsoring a Lamma book and the Sound Art festival in South Lamma last year. He's not confident in speaking English, unfortunately.

But it was easy to tell from the locals surrounding him that he seems to be kind of a celebrity in South Lamma, pretty popular especially with the people selling their formerly almost worthless/unwanted land to him, 3+ million sqft/28 hectares on Lamma so far, according to their website.

Some of the indigenous South Lammaites seem to be definitely looking forward to the "economic stimulus" and cash they hope The Baroque on Lamma might bring to their area, while others treasure their quiet, peaceful and simple life.

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That's why i asked the question... How could Wong King manage to obtain approval to build on farmland? Even indigenous villagers' applications are rejected.
Maybe that approval has not been granted, and that's why he approached the Development Bureau with such an ambitious scheme. A 6 (?!) star hotel in a place where there is no road access??? I can just imagine those high-flyers who stay at the Four Seasons spending a night on Lamma. International sailing events? What does Mr.Li know about sailing? The Yacht club organises races, and seems to have all the right international contacts. The whole project sounds like a smokescreen for just another ill-conceived residential complex that could go terribly wrong, like the Sea Ranch developed by Hutchison.


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Is it the place where the turtles lay their eggs?


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Baroque painter Michelangelo? That's not THE Michelangelo but Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggiio, also known as Caravaggio. Michelangelo is one of the two most influential and famous Renaissance artists, even a "contender for the title of the archetypal Renaissance man, along with his rival and fellow Italian Leonardo da Vinci."

Actually, all 4 artists that the Turtles are named after are very famous Renaissance artists, 3 of them contemporaries in Italy, around the year 1500, Donatello is early renaissance, mid 1400s. Baroque was the artistic style prevalent from the late 16th century to the early 18th century in Europe. I've admired quite a few of these original artworks during my early travelling days, exploring Italy.

Nice try, Tavis - especially Island "Shredder", from the Turtles movie :D - but no cigar in this case. But there should be many more Baroque links to pop culture trivia out there that you could exploit? Especially Baroque music should provide easy links, with Vivaldi, Bach and Handel as key composers.

Baroque architecture: are these general examples of how The Baroque might look like?

{L_IMAGE}
{L_IMAGE}
{L_IMAGE}

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Last edited by Lamma-Gung on Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:49 am, edited 3 times in total.

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You got me there. I thought Baroque was a subset of Renaissance. I guess I shouldn't have skipped so many of those Art History classes all those years ago!

O.K. - rewritten:

Recent sightings on Lamma of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles have led to rampant speculation. What are these terrible terrapin heroes up to? In a rushed interview, freedom fighting turtle, Michelangelo, admitted he was pretty pissed to here that some developer was poised to drive his sea going green brethren from their ancestral homes. Looking pumped for battle he let loose the famous battle cry, "Kowabunga dudes! The Mutant Ninja Turtles gonna snap some King Wong butt!" Later he added that he wasn't at all impressed that King Wong, the Island Shredder, was naming his doomsday resort after the high artistic style of the great painters who followed in the footsteps of his famous namesake, Renaissance painter Michelangelo. We shall see whether our four armored heroes can preserve the natural Lamma Island habitat!

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Well, much better, and using these green Turtles as a symbol and logo to fight against development is a cute idea, but there's just one little problem with this approach, besides running into potential licensing conflicts. :wink:

Turtle Beach Sham Wan is the next major bay over to the Southwest from Shek Pai Wan where The Baroque is planned. There are some tall hills in-between the two bays and it looks very unlikely that well-known and strictly protected Turtle Beach would be affected by any of the construction. This would surely cause a firestorm of public opposition all over HK. The developer is not stupid and there'll be enough other opposition to deal with anyway.

The only way the turtles will be affected, according to Dr Andy from WWF, is "light sensitivity" as the turtles might be a bit shy to lay their eggs when they spot some lights, 500 metres away from their beach, beyond the hills in-between the beaches. Green Turtles seem to be very modest creatures, very unlike the boisterous Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

I'll take some more pictures of the bays from above if I make it up to Mt. Stenhouse again as planned over Easter. Maybe somebody could even do an Artist Impression of a baroque-style palace, eh, 6-star hotel, in this idyllic and all-rural bay, what a contrast!


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LG, are you the playing the role of 'devil's advocate'?

The 2 bays in question, Sham Wan (Turtle Bay) and Shel Pai Wan are joined by a valley that rises only a few metres (not sure of the exact measurement) above sea level. There are no hills separating the 2 bays. I'm no marine biologist but I find it hard to imagine that the massive construction project that I remember seeing drawings of (which have now disappeared from King Wong's website) would not seriously impact the whole marine ecology of the area. Am I incorrect in remembering that the development encroached into the valley joining these 2 bays?

I remember you having posted the artist's conception of the planned development here on Lamma.com. Could you please post the link to it?

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Sham Wan is by far the prettiest beach and bay on Lamma. It's an easy 10-minute walk (if that) from the proposed development area to Sham Wan. Imagine the number of families and kids swamping Sham Wan in future if this thing goes ahead, not to mention water skiing, speed boats and pleasure junks. Goodbye turtles - but then they've probably gone already.

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I totally agree that there are almost innumerable important reasons to seriously question this proposed development. And a thorough-going questioning is certainly needed. King Wong is not going to give up - in fact, I would say the odds are very much in favour of his eventual success with some slightly scaled down version of the last proposal.

You have pointed out that he appears to be very popular with the locals in the Mo Tat Wan, Shek Pai Wan and I suppose Sok U Wan areas. Most pragmatic working folk when asked to choose between bread and freedom or between bread and any other less than immediately relevant ideal like environmental protection, will choose bread. Of course he's popular with locals! An absolutely crucial element here will be for an education program, designed by people a helluv a lot more local than myself aimed at the most local of the locals. I think this is where a group like Green Lamma can make a big difference. King Wong knows the importance of public education as a means to gather support and that's why he put his money behind the book Lamma Story, which painted a picture of Lamma as an economically distressed backwater who's economy had been gutted by government regulations that had been geared to protect the environment from rampant industrial development. It's time for us to mount at least an equally effective education campaign that provides a more balanced view of the importance of environmental protection and sustainable community development.

And when it comes to King Wong loving Lamma Island, well - I can only guess, cause he aint speaking out around here much in public, but the Lamma he sees is surely a different shade of green than the one I see. All of his developments reek of elitism - they're posh, they're baroque, they're bloody expensive, they're exclusive and they dont appear to embody any basic principles of true community sustainability. The real Lamma community needs an exclusive yachting club like it needs a bloody hole in its head!

So, we need to rally all the forces at our disposal to resist this abomination. And it just so happens that it's necessary to appeal to people's emotions when your trying to get their attention. That's what the role of mascots is. That's why furry seals in Canada's arctic attract so much world-wide attention. In relation to all the facts and to the true injustices and actual incidents of violence against man and nature in the bigger picture, seals gotta be pretty low on the list. But look at all the attention they gather. Wise groups might use that to open the doors to education. It's not rational - it can be abused - but it seems to be the what works with masses of people. Mascots can draw attention to an issue and then all the other less sexy but even more important issues can be seen more closely.

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Last edited by Tavis on Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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As you can see from these pics I found in an old forum thread, The Baroque fills the entire valley between Sham Wan and Shek Pai Wan. These artists impressions are at least a year old and I remember they used to be on King Wong's site. King Wong's website now has no useful information or pictures pertaining to "The Baroque". A few snaps of sailing boats and pics of the area in its undeveloped state. In the absence of up-to-date information, we'll just have to rely on these old illustrations.


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Last edited by Tavis on Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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