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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:00 pm 
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Nancy {L_WROTE}:
It is shocking when one first moves here and starts to understand how many laws related to building and the environment are being violated, but ignoring it or becoming jaded will not help.


As Tigger certainly feels and as I am already to an extent! There must be, say, twenty flats all interested in the same area and no one is even batting an eyelid.

Is illegal dumping something the Lands department can take action over? As mentioned in my post above (and as Alan suggested earlier) I want to speak directly with the landlord (and not his workers) first and then take further action from there.

L-Gung - you suggested that this may require us to move villages. What did you mean by this? Really? In this day and age?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:01 pm 
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Tigger {L_WROTE}:
So welcome to Lamma.


Ha - thanks! I will say that apart from all this nonsense, the people we have met have been fantastic.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:43 pm 
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iliketurtles {L_WROTE}:
Is illegal dumping something the Lands department can take action over? As mentioned in my post above (and as Alan suggested earlier) I want to speak directly with the landlord (and not his workers) first and then take further action from there.


The Lands Dept is very toothless about dumping and will dither for months or years till there is no way to prove who is responsible and probably do nothing.

But you DO have leverage now, while the (illegal) construction is in progress and the workers are there.

Talk to the owner of the flat (the construction boss must be able to give you his name and number if you push) and insist that all the waste be taken away and disposed of properly, and that they start doing this right now, promises of a clean up "later" are hopeless.

You can suggest that you don't want to make an official complaint but will be forced to if the mess isn't all cleaned up and carted away (to God knows where).

If your landlord did this, that would be better, some are very houseproud and concerned with their property and surroundings; others don't give a shit as long as they can collect rent. But talk to him, you might be lucky. It doesn't help him to have piles of crap around his property.

You never know, the owner of the top floor may might care about the mess too. Most though seem to consider that moving it 10 yards off their land is fine.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:23 am 
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I note this rooftop addition is particularly cheeky as they've built it with new brick walls rather than glass frame panels which can easily be dismantled if they get an order to remove from the Buildings Dept. (and which can easily be re-assembled after the order has been removed and photos taken of the restored area!). Following the recent collapse of the old block in Kowloon, the Buildings Dept have been enforcing the rules strictly in urban areas, even small infringements. Seems the Hung Yee Kuk are allowed their usual concessions in the NT. Around Sai Kung, its more unusual to see a flat without a roof extension than with. I think neighbouring top floor residents who get their views blocked by often ugly work suffer more than G/Fs who just have to put up with a short period of construction noise. I wish the BD would get serious about large scale ugly ones that are popping up all over the place now.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:17 pm 
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Tally Ho {L_WROTE}:
Around Sai Kung, its more unusual to see a flat without a roof extension than with.

Yes, I noticed the same thing during recent tours for Lammaites all over the New Territories. There are entire small streets of Village Houses where EVERY house has a Glasshouse on top, often exactly as big as the entire 2/F, 700 sqft fyully enclosed. Quite a few of them are built completely or partially with bricks and have all kinds of extension and extras added on, very elaborate.

If all of these seem to have no problems - thousands of them, I'd guess - how would a few Glasshouses builders on Lamma be worrying about THE LAW?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:43 pm 
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iliketurtles {L_WROTE}:

Ha - thanks! I will say that apart from all this nonsense, the people we have met have been fantastic.


This is why I am still on Lamma :-) The island itself is beautiful (but so are other islands and areas of Hong Kong.)

And even though I am 'jaded' and sick and tired of 'landowners/builders' on this island, I am happy that I live in a community that has a lot of people trying to protect the environment and animals, and lots of friendly people.

I'm still confused though as to why construction waste can't be cleaned up. If the 'builders' have gone,... then isn't it the Landowners responsibility?? The one who paid to build the home? I don't quite get that.

A funny story (actually not so funny) story from around 20 years ago on this fair isle, from people 'in the know' at that time.

The Police would get a 'tip off' at the end of the month, that there were illegal construction workers on a building site. Immigration would then turn up, round them up and put them in jail. And this happened quite a few times just before the end of the month.

Police got wise that it was actually the 'contractor/owner' that was giving the Police the tip off...... this way he didn't have to pay the illegal builders their wages. Fortunately they eventually arrested him.

Regarding illegal 3rd floors being built everywhere. Is this safe??? I work nearby the building in To Kwo Wan that collapsed last year, as the builders had knocked down the wrong walls. Are village houses still safe after building atop of them??


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:35 pm 
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Tigger {L_WROTE}:
I'm still confused though as to why construction waste can't be cleaned up. If the 'builders' have gone,... then isn't it the Landowners responsibility?? The one who paid to build the home?

In theory, but he'll deny he did it and you can't prove it.

Also, if the waste was dumped on private land, the government can't do anything at all, and that owner (if anyone knows who it is or how to contact him) may not care, (or it may be the same owner as the current house) just waiting till he gets permission to build another house on it; having it covered with a pile of crap makes it easier for the land use to be changed if necessary.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:05 pm 
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The problem in Hong Kong and specifically NT is that unlike other countries no one owns the land between the houses, generally people only own the plot the house is built on plus 1m therefore all the rest is waste ground owned by the government or occasionally an indigenous or sometimes the subject of an old agricultural lease that is no longer farmed but no one wants to give up in case it is one day worth something. Bear in mind that these leases cost only peanuts to keep going.

The result is a lot of space that is just left abandoned or dumped on etc.

Contrast that to normal countries where people tend to own every square inch between the houses and establish nice neighbourhoods and gardens etc and you'll get the picture as to why the environment is shit. This is not to mention the profusion of cheaply built illegal structures.

An example, my neighbour built an illegal structure on the roof looks like a refuge camp now as its made of tin sheet and steel. To add insult he built a bike shed on the back of the building - attached to my flat- out of dexion and plastic sheet, I try not to go around the back as it pisses me off. This guy is a westerner too, not even a local.

Without a major reform of NT land policy we are all stuck in a land of Plastic and tin sheds and dumped rubbish because no one in the community owns the land therefore they have no power to look after it and no incentive to build anything nice.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:42 pm 
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In today's Standard.
Can you believe these Kuk guys! Asking for a waiver for their illegal "sheds"!!!

{L_QUOTE}:
Kuk seeks waiver on illegal sheds

Samson Lee

Thursday, April 21, 2011

The Heung Yee Kuk is seeking a special waiver for minor illegal structures after the Ombudsman accused the Buildings Department of acting too slowly on such structures in rural houses.
Kuk vice chairman Cheung Hok-ming said the council has set up a working group with the Development Bureau to handle illegal structures in the New Territories.

The council's suggestions include exempting several types of structures, such as roof sheds and air-conditioner frames.

"When the weather is as hot as 30 degrees Celsius, the temperature indoors may be higher," Cheung said on RTHK.

"Building [lounging] sheds on roofs is unavoidable, plus residents do not live in the sheds," he said, adding that exemptions may be allowed as long as the structures do not pose a threat to public safety.

"I do not think the government is deficient in monitoring and execution."

Detailed talks with the government on the working group's suggestions will be held after June.

Under the Buildings Ordinance, a New Territories exempted house cannot be over 8.23 meters or three stories high. Restrictions also apply to the roofed-over area and the thickness of each load-bearing wall.

Democratic Party lawmaker and Legislative Council housing panel chairman Lee Wing-tat slammed the suggested waivers, saying "such exemptions made by the government would create a difference in standards between the New Territories and urban areas."

Lee said: "The public must be consulted whether there should be a difference."

Lee said he will apply to introduce the topic in the panel meeting agenda.

Ombudsman Alan Lai Nin on Tuesday accused the Buildings Department of indirectly colluding with builders of illegal structures by not cracking down quickly enough.

He said that since 2006, enforcement has mainly been confined to unauthorized work-in-progress sites, while work that is almost finished is condoned.


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