700 Square foot 2/f Flat with RootTop for rent in Wan Long Village, fully Renovated and in good condition with 3 bedrooms.

Please PM me for more details. ( fbdchan@damian.denizchan.com )

This looks familiar – wasn't it being offered back in Sept for 16k or abouts along with the phrase “it might be slightly above your budget, but…” I guess it was! A lengthy and familiar discussion about overzealous Lamma landlords split off from this which I guess didn’t help the offer. Maybe the new line should be “it might be significantly less than I dreamed for, but… where are all those damn yuppies?”

@Tally Ho,

You are correct, Damian Chan was indeed advertising this flat as available for rent in late August/early September timeframe and was requesting HK$16,000 for the pleasure of renting.

Obviously, this is now considered cheap on Lamma, particularly given that Lamma Gung's old flat in YSW is being advertised as HK$20,000 PM, only HK$8,000 more than he was paying in 2011, i.e.., the flat was 12,000 PM, so the additional increase in rent only represents a 2/3rds increase in rent, some 66.6% increase - so 16K per month is a bargain, we'll to some at least, to others, Well, its just as you have stated in response.

Still, we must move on, I note 350 Sq Ft and 400 Sq Ft are now being offered at HK$20.00 per square foot, so Mr. Chan should be charging HK$25.00 per square feet for the fact that the flat has a view and a lick of paint, so I think asking HK$18,000 is more than correct - obviously, locals cannot afford this, but a rich banker, lawyer or school teacher who gets a rent allowance will be laughing all the way to the bank.

PS
Winter on Lamma is never a good time to try and rent property out, better to wait until April timeframe and better weather.

Oh, my god. U guys are so familiar with the rent of village houses.

My rent was only $10K up to 2011, not $12K, so the asking rent now is exactly double of what we paid up to 2 years ago. We never paid $12K. The flat is still available after almost 3 months, according to my former neighbours. We were asked for $15K this year, turning it down, shortly afterwards it's been advertised at $20K.
The loss of any rent during these 3 months already makes up for 9 months of hoped-for new rent. Over 1 year from us moving out the rental income would have been the same, (9 months @ $20K = 12 months @ $15K = $180K).
Almost a break-even for now, minus all the agent fees and minor renovation costs. But every additional month of not finding a tenant at this max. rent, or accepting any lower rent will be an overall loss to the landlord over the next 1-2 years. Lesson not learnt: being too greedy can backfire...

Looking at the agent's windows occasionally when visiting YSW every 2 days or so these days for meals and many other reasons:
The local property market seems finally to be easing off a bit now. It's probably mainly because the peak summer moving season is over now and demand for flats has eased. In the meantime, the village house (re-)building boom continues unabashedly in the larger YSW area, after a mini-boom of building approvals from Lands dept. recently. Just walk along YSW Main Street to see the rebuilding of several houses, plus a number of brand-new ones going up very soon just behind Jackson's and along the Yung Shue Long valley. Plus the planned 50 Village Houses (4 completed so far) in the brand-new Tai Wan Nam village just off Power Station beach, between the 1st and 2nd Cable Road where a tall forest stood just a few years ago.

Interestingly, there's also been a local mini-boom in building brand-new illegal structures starting just a few months ago:
New well-equipped living rooms and kitchens going up on rooftops, glass-enclosed all around, glass-enclosed balconies, new fixed rooftop structures, illegal sheds, etc. No entire 4th and 5th floors yet, I believe.
The heat from the Lands Dept and Govt. seems to be off for now, back to business as usual....

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@Lamma Gung,

Many thanks for the update, so it was a full 100% increase, given you were paying HK$10,000 and moved about 4 months ago, your former Landlord is now HK$40,000 down, that's before any repairs/re-paint job, or, he's lost two months rent at his excessive rental requirement, which means, to make up for your loss, and his actual potential loss, he'll no doubt be asking HK$25K next.

Anyway, given the excessive/gouging rents being requested on these free-of-charge listing boards, don't you think Lamma.Com should actually be charging for these listings to appear in the Buy/Sell/Rent section, i.e., if the rent is not excessive, yes it should be free, but given Mr. Damian Chan will no doubt desire HK$16,000 for a flat at most that will have a mortgage of 9-10K associated with it, if he purchased at the height of the Lamma Madness, that's quite a mark-up as a buy-to-let.

Fairs, fair, these boards are supposed to be assisting those living on Lamma, not promoting rents better suited for Mid Levels - still, glad to see your former Land Lord is having a hard time renting and people are beginning to understand the difference between a 'fair' rent for decent apartments, and rip-offs, which a 100% rent increase obviously is!!!!!!

Lamma Gung,

With the building of illegal structures on the third floor roofs, does this mean we'll be able to rent 100 Sq. Ft on Lamma soon, i.e, like the cages in Kowloon for about HK$1,500-2,500 per month per cage?

You can fit about four cages in something 10X10 ft, that's about HK$6-12,000K per month extra, on top of your standard HK$20,000 charge for the third floor plus roof - however, do the LandLord's deal with those in the cages, or are these sub-let out?

Also, I thought "Gentirifacation" was about raising the standards and ambience of Lamma, rather than demoting it to a 'third world' slum?

Further, its hardly like Soho on the Main Street, so if I'm paying HK$25,000-HK$50,000 per month for my flat, should I not expect at a minimum bars, eateries and pizza palaces similar to Soho, rather than the more down market fayre and useless 'tack' shops we presently have?

I quite fancy a nice glass of "Chateau Le Chateau" Al Fresco on a Spring afternoon - obviously, with my rent I can't afford a full bottle, but who cares?

No doubt Alan Zeman is already eying Main Street up, so there's another investment opportunity - I think I'd make a good property agent on Lamma, indeed, I think by Spring 2014 a three storey village house should be pulling in HK$100,000 per month in rent, that's three flats and the rooftops for cages - ferry may get a little crowded though, so best we all start demanding the resumption of the old three tier ferries - I can open a nightclub on one of these and make even more cash off the much vaunted "Yuppies"!!!!!!!!!!!

Just a thought, but ain't unfettered capitalism fun, and Hong Kong according to the Hoover Institute, is the most freest economy in the World, so why don't we all just call it HK$50,000 a month each to live on the island - who knows, one day we may even get a "club House" and swimming pool - can't be bad!

And blah and blah and blah... What the hell do you care ?.. You registered this site what... 3 weeks ago ?..and already on crusade against everything, anything or anyone on Lamma ? What is your problem here ? Jealous ? envious ? frustrated ? ...

Systematically spitting on the face or anyone trying to rent a probably hard earned property (nope ! money doesn't fall from the sky, even for the filthy elite), you are boring !..really !

The rents 'are' starting to come down. About bloody time too!!
I check the Estate Agents windows every day. Although 'Dollarfull' is still asking the craziest prices. The other three Estate Agents are a lot cheaper (but still expensive)

There have been around 12 - 15 available flats for rent since January. All highly inflated prices. Didn't look like there was any kind of 'turnover'.

Since the Government said two weeks ago that they will NOT change the stamp duty (which many owners were thinking they would) there are now more flats for rent, and the prices have all started to come down. I have seen a few 2nd floor with roof for around 10K (but they were snapped up quickly.) Prices are still high for Lamma, but I think owners are realising that it's just not feasible to sit on empty flats. Hopefully they will drop more.

@tTigger,

I'd like to think that you are correct, but antidotal evidence from those I know renewing leases suggests otherwise - one of my neighbours was issued a 60% rent increase to begin this November for a ground floor flat in a non-too-salubrious part of Sha Po Old Village - rent requested HK$11,000, existing rent HK$7,000, they have told the LL to 'bugger off' and have downsized to 400 Sq. Ft. Other 350 Sq. Ft. flats are available for HK$4,200 close by - which I may have to move too if LL has managed to sell flat, or asks for a ridiculous increase come April - owners will not issue two-year leases, so will have to see.

That said, if I'm expected to pay a minimum of US$1000/HK$7,800 for the type of 1/F flat I presently have, fair enough, but if higher, and considering the dilapidated state of many apartments, I'd be best advised to move to similar surroundings in Yuen Long, where the apartments presently being offered are of a better quality than Lamma with decent schools close by.

I'll wait until January before making a firm decision - obviously a small rent increase, that is one equal to moving costs associated with moving off island, is agreeable as not better off moving financially, but if we are talking a 30% plus increase in just 12 months, them I'm afraid to say I'm off.

As stated previously, I have no issue in paying a 'fair' price for reasonable housing - I'm opposed to 'rip off' price increases for flats that have had zero work on them and have not changed hands at crass prices, i.e., anyone purchasing a 700Ft flat on Lamma for more than HK$3 million clearly needs their head examined - the mortgages associated with these properties are approx. 8K/9K PM, that's before taking into account the 30-40% deposit and return owners presently expect from their misguided investment.

Having lived in HK for nearly 20 years, and witnessed a few property crashes in these years, it was evident that the top of the market was reached by April this year, and since then we have seen declines - but I've witnessed 40% declines within weeks in HK once the market is 'spooked' and buyers evaporate.

As for anything in the Property Agents windows on Lamma, well let's just say 'forget these', if LL's can afford to sit on empty properties expecting rents of 16K-20K, great!

Who am I to offer financial advice, however, in the 'real world' I'd not be happy losing a guaranteed HK$10,000 per month waiting in anticipation for a fool to pay HK$20,000, and as we have been informed, many of these 'rip off' properties have been in the window for six-months plus, which effectively is a 'real-term' loss of HK$60,000 - as Lamma Gung as highlighted with his own previous YSW property. Mind you he was lauding this LL only one or two years back, so funny how reality changes your perceptions.

As for Encre de Chine - someone who does not even reside on the island - the comments made against Ms. Pablo are crass, so no doubt this person is one of the 'greedy price gougers' who's divorced from reality - still, I'm sure the much vaunted 'market' he/she eludes to is but a figment of the imagination, for in reality, prices on Lamma are set by the 'cartel' and perhaps as you yourself have identified they are finally waking up to the fact that you cannot ask for HK$20,000, or set a benchmark of 20K for properties that are far from desirable from a renters point-of-view.

We shall see, but obviously I'm keeping a close eye on the matter and hope owners come to their senses 'sooner', rather than later.

I've lived here many years. I have found that it is the 'indigenous' landlords that are sitting on properties, and asking for outrageous rents.

Myself, and many friends of mine are quite happy with their landlords, with reasonable increases over the years, and they manage to stay a long time in their homes. Each of these landlords is not a local, but just a regular working family that also own a property on Lamma, but don't live here.

Maybe we should only start renting from landlords that don't live here. Then they won't be here on Lamma, and able to 'listen all the time about the possibility of riches' from the Estate Agents.

I live in hope. But I have seen a marked decrease in only the past two weeks.

As much as we would all like the prices of property to come down the reality is there is still a short supply on lamma and a pretty steady demand from people who realise living on an island only 25 minutes from the CBD is more attractive than living in the city. Places like Sai Kung have steadily continued to rise and you would be lucky to get a 2/f plus roof for any less than 4M and up to 5M plus if it has been renovated to a high standard. So you could argue that 3M or 3.5M on Lamma is not too bad a deal given it is much easier to get into central than it is from Sai Kung. Sure of course we cannot drive or get taxis (this is a bonus to me) and have to rely on the ferries and we dont have a choice of schools or supermarkets but we do have a village, a community and many other advantages that other areas of HK do not have. I think rents will ease off but sale prices will remain steady or continue to rise. Lamma is far from perfect but having lived in HK for many years and in a number of locations including SK, various places on HK island and Lamma this is by far my favourite place.

To rent/buy a place to live, you have to consider the location first.

You need to work right ? Then you have to travel from your home to your work place 5 days of week I assume. How mush is the travel time and cost per day?
At Lamma you board the ferry and after 25 minutes you arrival CBD. From Sai Kung you need to take bus/min bus first then change to MTR this simple need more time and money.

If you have kids, they have to change school. Or you want your kids travel from Sai Kung back to Lamma everyday, just to save the small rent different?

The fact is two years ago, the price to rent a 2/F is HK$10,000 per month and G/F is HK$7,000 per month. Today's renew price are HK15,000 for 2/F and HK$11,00 for 1/F. This is today's price, otherwise the landlord won't ask such a figure and you are free to take it of turn it down.

Then the condition of the flat, view and does it within your budget? If you are single and SOHO, this is easy to down sizing, moving off to Sai Kung, Yuen Long or Park Island.

If you working at CDB, only Park Island ferries can reach CDB within 25 minutes and they cost more then Lamma ferries. Of course you can find the place to live at City for less then 25 minutes travel but we are refer to paying more and this is not what we want?

You can always try to bargain for a better term / price and this is the same for the landlord.

I noted that the new house just behind Jackson's have less clearance then the old house.

You're free to turn it down, in the same way you are free to stop eating if you can't afford food.
I'm not playing the real estate market, I need a place for my family to live.

That's the basic difference in outlook between landlords and renters.

There isn't a free market here.

Salaries aren't going up 50% in a year. Rents on Lamma are.

The higher rents demanded can only be sustained if the existing community is replaced by one with significantly higher incomes. Landlords, estate agents and the politicians in their pockets are very happy with this process. People who have made their lives here, raised families here, may be excused for being less gleeful at losing their homes.

I don't expect any sympathy from landlords, our last one just threw us out after 14 years so she could tart the place up and double the rent. But don't expect me to like it.

Sorry Damien, but I have to disagree on this one. OK,.. it's true that 2/Fl were going for 10K two years ago, etc. This is true. But what was it like THREE years ago?? The market was stable and you got for what you paid for.

I was living in a wonderful, clean, newish 2nd floor flat for 6k. And for 2nd floor flats, you could pay anything from 4K at the lower end, and upwards,.. but basically around $10 per square foot for a nice place. This is a fact, not anecdotal. As someone with many pets, (and need an outdoors for them and for my sanity) I keep a keen eye on the property market. Then it all went crazy around three years ago.

As for the landlords asking for the 'Today's price'?? Is that the 'market price'? If so... every Hong Konger knows that the HK property market is just plain mad!! It's speculation and greed. End of story. And it can't last,.. nor can it continue without civil unrest IMHO.

When LOCAL Chinese (non indigenous) families here on Lamma, cannot put a roof over their children's and grandchildren's heads, and at least two generations of their family were born and raised, and continue to live on Lamma, but have to move in with their parents because they can't afford the rents... then there is something SERIOUSLY wrong.

'Today's prices' don't work. And I have seen prices start to come down. Finally... landlords are sitting on empty flats thinking "F&%k..... CY Leung is not changing the stamp duty, and my flat has been on the market for the past 8 months and no one is taking it... bugger, maybe it's time to charge a reasonable rent". Well.. I hope that's what they are thinking.

Apologies for rambling

I notice Mr. Damian Chan comes out with a lot of spurious comments and strawmen to justify exorbitant rents on Lamma, specifically here in YSW, but fails anywhere in any of his posts - this alleged advertisement - to indicate what price he's looking for, for his alleged "superior" 2nd floor apartment. Indeed, its been left to observers such as myself, Tigger, Alan and Tally Ho to indicate to others reading his "advert" what he's actually looking for as far as rent is concerned - this being HK$16,000 when originally posted some six weeks ago.

Mr. Chan then introduces the "notion" of a free market on Lamma, which as Lamma Gung often notes, is actually far from free - its a cartel of Property Agents and certain owners trying to ramp rents up to HK$20,000 per month - which, judging by all the empty advertised apartments in the Property Agents windows, they are not having any success with. They have however in the course of a 36 month timeframe managed to increase rents by approx. 100% for the average flat here on Lamma.

So without taking your analysis apart line by line Damian, could you at least have the decency to indicate what rent you are looking for ( See his above observations on prices), rather than request persons to email you for these details.

Further, if said apartment is so wonderful and is priced correctly for the YSW market, prey tell why it was not snapped up the moment it hit the market six weeks ago - perhaps you rented it out for a short time, or more likely as it would seem, people have cottoned on to the fact that you are asking too much rent for what actually is on offer.

I further suggest to the Administrator of this site, and the Mods, that if posters desire to make use of this "free" service, they at least have the decency to indicate what "prices" they are looking for, rather than leaving it to Lamma's more concerned residents to have to fill in the gaps - otherwise, this should actually be a "paid" advert and placed in another section. And no doubt Damian can afford this "fee" given he desires to match on price what the Property Agents are trying to charge prospective renters - or are they now offering their services free of charge!!!!!!!

We don't have such rules, and would rather not have to police ads to enforce them. If landlords don't supply the information I think prospective renters will assume the worst.

While I have expressed my personal opinion rather strongly here, it isn't really fair to personally pillory the few landlords who advertise here. They may be taking advantage, but they aren't the market makers.

Every response to an ad, positive or negative, raises it to the top of the page, so continued discussion only gives the original ad more prominence.
More general discussion should continue in a discussion thread. Start that and make one post here to point to it if you want to continue.

The general rule for property ads in this free forum is that the advertisers can't charge commission and that it should be their own or their friends' flats. If we suspect property agents advertising here we'll throw them out and ask them to advertise on the home page (which they never do). Not a single agent has ever advertised on this site, except one who was selling a few small flats for around $1 million each around 10 years or so ago. An entire old-style 2-floor Chinese house in Ko Long was advertised for $1 million, but never found a buyer back then.

Of course, agents might contact people looking for flats here directly, not much we can do to stop that on a public forum.

Enforcing charges and collecting the money for any classifieds would be such a head-ache and administrative overhead, I couldn't handle it myself. I think that it would be hardly worth my effort and time to follow up and collect this kind of small charges as they wouldn't be voluntary and advertisers would try hard to avoid them, of course. But if somebody, not an agent, promises a donation for any classified ad, we might make their post sticky, giving them top-of-the-classifieds exposure for several weeks or until sold. Thank you, adamk, for your just received donation!

This site still relies on (completely voluntary) advertisers and the occasional, very rare donors and sponsors. I hope that my long-time acquaintance and nice guy Damian will be one of them, despite all the heat he's getting here.

Let's focus blame on property agents actively driving up rents, not on individual flat owners who see a simple opportunity for easy profit. Their agents tell them of some record price they've achieved with a single top flat, baiting the landlords' normal, human greed. Some agents are trying hard to convince flat owners to increase their rent and sale prices dramatically, increasing their own commissions, but leaving the owners disappointed if the flats stay empty and unsold for many months afterwards. Simply look at the agents' windows for numerous examples and a currently quite large supply of empty flats.

Off-island friends of mine, following my recommendations above, have been recently looking at dozens of unoccupied flats all over Lamma at still "reasonable" prices, relying on simple word of mouth, online and in person, avoiding property agents altogether.
Most Lamma landlords are still pretty decent and reasonable, I think. The above-average greedy minority is still a minority but they're over-represented in agents' windows. The few good deals ever advertised are taken up within days, but the bad deals stay in the windows for months.

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You obviously don't know me at all mate. I own a very simple 700ft place with a lovely garden around and have been renting it out to the same person for the same price (HKD5000, since this is all you are interested about) for several years, as in over 10 years (yes sir !). You should come back to reality yourself and go easy on your fantasy about landlords and "cartel" or whatever.. ridiculous.
And by the way, my wife was born on Lamma, like her parents, and her gran-parents before them..long time before you, privileged expats started your crusade against "locals"... And no, they are not of the supposed "cartel" you imagine, but a really humble, not to say poor, farming family, not even owning they house (the government does)..you know, one of these old farmers you find so "typical" when you cross them on your way to the Diesel Bar... That, I suppose, gives us the right to stay involved in the Island's life, even if not living there (for practical reason I see no reason to justify...)
Cheers !