Yes, as Alan says, I was referring to the reported response of a few interested/enraged onlookers. As Bird hinted, it is not just about a little lily pond, but the whole future of the valley/housing projects. As a side order it is about political cronyism, departmental buck-passing and unwillingness of the police to enforce the law. Surely there is a story there to interest the press? Does anyone have personal contacts with reporters from the Enlgish or Chinese press? Meanwhile, let's keep up the pressure by continuing to e-mail or phone governemt departments etc. I got a fairly lengthy reply from the EPD, but they stressed that their brief is only to investigate polluted air or noise, or discharge of effluent.

_________________
I did not have sex with that woman!

The Fongs have run YSW for as long as any can remember. Fong Loi was for the last 20-plus years the only builder (he owns all the VVs), the only real property developer and the chief politician.

Most local locals (born in YSW) hate the Fongs but have to shut up - not so much through fear but through plain old economics: work with them or leave. Many left. Police just scared to hell.

I did used to love that lily pond but really, that ain't even the half of it.

Good luck all...

And yes, I fink me off to fight club pronto.

Obviously we need more background info on all the 'stakeholders'

On another front, 'Bird' has suggested on the Chinese thread about this issue that we ought to start a petition calling for Ledgco to create laws to protect watercourses that flow through 'private land'. Currently, it seems that the only obligation of a 'landowner' engaged in construction works that affect watercourses is that they do not obstruct flow, so burying them in sewer pipes is considered acceptable.

This is absolutely not acceptable when you consider all the important functions of natural watercourses. Current legislation recognises only the drainage function of watercourses. I suggest we begin this immediately so that we can be seen to be active on the issue when the SCMP arrives to cover the story.

_________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
----- Margaret Mead

check this forum:
http://www.lamma.com.hk/forum/viewtopic ... c&start=20

and here:
http://www.compunicate.com/Lamma-zine/P ... hannel.htm

_________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
----- Margaret Mead

There is also the question of the taxpayers being royally screwed over that fake "flood control" project, with the government footing the bill for what looks increasingly like infrastructure for a private housing development (as has been observed before in the discussion on that project). Is the ICAC a suitable agent to investigate this deception?

_________________
I did not have sex with that woman!

Big Bad Bill,
let me know if you received the message i sent you

On top of my e-letters to the non-governmental envrionmental organizations, I've also sent the following e-letter to Sing Tao, Ming Pao, SCMP Editors:

quote:
I am writing to appeal for your assistance in bringing justice over such hideous act of the landowner(s) who have allowed dumping of construction waste on their land which lead to suffocating the ecology of a lily pond... the calls of Romer's Tree Frogs, an endangered and protected species have been recently heard in and around that stream by a respected herpetologist from Hong Kong University.

I urge you to read the forum - Yung Shue Long Development on the link below to understand the urgency of this issue and I have also requested assistance of the following non-government environmental organizations to assist in stopping the destruction of the environment!!

Friends of the Earth 地球之友
World Wide Fund for Nature Hong Kong ( WWF HK) 世界自然(香港)基金會
Earth Care 地球仁協會
Produce Green 綠田園
The Conservancy Association 長春社
Green Power 綠色力量
Green Peace China 綠色和平
Environmental Campaign Committee 環境保護運動委員會

Please kindly refer to these links for background information:

http://www.lamma.com.hk/forum/viewtopic ... sc&start=0

http://www.lamma.com.hk/forum/viewtopic ... 1512#51512

For further understand, please don't hesitate to call me on xxxxxxx.

UNQUOTE

It's a long shot .......

Lily Pond pictures... there are so many over the years in my archives, one of my favourite photo subjects...
Feel free to use these pictures any way you see fit.

Post or email me your best shots and they'll go onto the cover of the Lamma-zine, part of a permanent Lily Pond photo gallery.

<img src="http://www.compunicate.com/Lamma-zine/Blog/2007-11/!DSC_6188-b.jpg" border=1>

<img src="http://www.compunicate.com/Lamma/Blog/Lily-Pond/!DSC_6197.jpg" border=1>
Nov 14, 2007

<img src="http://www.compunicate.com/Lamma/Blog/Brain-Drained/!DSC_1591.jpg" border=1>
Aug 18, 2008

<img src="http://www.compunicate.com/Lamma-zine/PG-YSL-channel/YSL-channel-1921.jpg" border=1>

<img src="http://www.lamma.com.hk/nick/ysl-walk-2750-bb.jpg" border=1>

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Click here for Lamma-zine stories and recent Lamma Spotlights of the Week:
Photo, Video, Person, Wildlife, Bird, Artwork.

Joni Mitchell's classic song Big Yellow Taxi that's just perfectly about what's happening here.

They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
And a swinging hot spot
Dont it always seem to go
That you dont know what youve got
Till its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

They took all the trees
Put em in a tree museum
And they charged the people
A dollar and a half just to see em
Dont it always seem to go
That you dont know what youve got
Till its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

Hey farmer farmer
Put away that d.d.t. now
Give me spots on my apples
But leave me the birds and the bees
Please!
Dont it always seem to go
That you dont know what youve got
Till its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

Late last night
I heard the screen door slam
And a big yellow taxi
Took away my old man
Dont it always seem to go
That you dont know what youve got
Till its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

_________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
----- Margaret Mead

In October 2007 we in Po Wah Yuen had our own battle with the Fungs. they illegally chopped down lots of mature trees to build a monster grave for Fung Loi. they even built the grave partially out of the grave yard (although this is in dispute)! and tried to build an illegal concrete road. We appealed to:

Lamma Donna's Office (no interest),
The Chairman of the Lamma Islands (North) Rural Committee (Mr Chan) who was very interested as it involved indigenous villagers,
The Police,
The Lands Department,
The District Office (Islands),
The Environmental and Hygiene Department
The Department of Ariculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department
and finally the Ombudsman

While our issue is not yet fully resolved we have had a small victory in that we stopped a concrete path from being build illegally and the fung family were made to replant some shrubs to replace the illegally chopped trees. Unbelievably no prosecution is to be made for the tree felling as we had no photographic evidence showing the exact person chopping down the trees.

A rather lame article appeared in the scmp (see attached picture) which quoted Mr Chan as saying it was our fault as our houses were built in a graveyard. this was completely untrue as this graveyard was not designated until after our houses were built - and guess whobuilt them in the first place? Mr Fung Loi himself!

Mr. Diu, from EPD, replied to my questions regarding the illegal disposal of construction waste saying:
"As a preliminary finding, there is no evidence that the dumped construction waste is originated from contracts with value of more than 1 million."

His findings are at odds with common sense and market prices.
Certainly the contract for the demolition of a 2-storey house in Main street and its replacement with a new one is worth more than 1 million.

It seems they are only listening to the developer's side. Have they seen the contract? How much is it worth?

An SCMP journalist named Briony is on her way to the site right now (it's 4:10 pm Thurs afternoon) Would be nice if a few ppl showed up.

_________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
----- Margaret Mead

I hope she's bringing a shovel

_________________
My real name isn't Harry.
Slurp my bean juice.

In total, but they probably split the job into separate contracts, even to separate companies, to keep each contract below $1 million, even though they're all the same people.

Everyone,

I had a couple of calls today from the SCMP - no idea how she got my number. A woman called Briony is taking on the case from someone else. She insisted on visiting today despite my pleas to wait till tomorrow when everyone is free and we were expecting a SCMP visit with a protest group on the site, photos .... etc

She said she had to do it today to get things in action and she'd email me a list of questions - I've still to receive it If I do, it would be good to get some help with the questions to be reported on, as I think some of you know a great deal more of the legal ins and outs than I do and what the various Govt depts have been saying other than "pass the buck please".

Also wouldn't it be good to put some faces to email names and have a quick half hour brainstorm on what the hell we can do to halt the dumping until the govt sorts out it's red tape and bureaucracy? Anyone up for it? I'm sure some cool ideas would come out of so many brains meeting together?


Carolyn
Yung Shue Long Old Village

Same here, i was on the ferry to Central when she called. I hope she managed to meet enough people on Lamma.

I agree that we should meet asap and coordinate our efforts. I will be on Lamma tomorrow, Friday, let's have a coffee.

I got a response from Mr Diu. Here is an excerpt:

"As far as EPD is concerned, our role is to investigate whether the
dumping activity has created any air and noise problems, whether there are
any polluted water discharging from the site and whether it constitutes
illegal waste disposal. So far, we conducted 5 number of
inspections/ambushes at the concerned location. During such
inspections/ambushes, we did not spot any air or noise pollution, nor did
we spot any wastewater being discharged from the concerned area."

It's strange how he talks about air and noise pollution but not water pollution.

Instead he switches to talk about waste water discharge and completely ignores my concern about pollution from the waste materials.

In any case, I have sent him the photos of the lily ponds before and after. I have also questioned him the validity and integrity of the inspections/ambushes. I have also asked to speak with his supervisior if he is unable to answer my questions.

After talking with some locals about this problem, one gentleman stated he was a friend of the developer involved has obtained a planning permit to construct 3 - yes 3 village houses on the site. However it would seem unsure if he really has a permit as this is the comment of the leaseholder - at least this may be his intent for the site.

_________________
RED

I have written several emails to AFCD about the destruction of the site and the records of Romer's tree frogs in the area but they have not responded. Bryony also contacted me and I will talk with her tomorrow at least about the Romer's tree frog concern and water quality issues associated with the disturbance. I sent a message to an email list this morning but I will repeat it here:


I want to be clear that Romer's tree frogs DO NOT breed in the lily pond, as they are intolerant of fish so only breed in small pools that dry up each year (basically puddles in the forest). However, I have heard Romer's tree frogs calling in the formerly vegetated area, where the rubble pile is now, on a number of occasions over the past two years. I just want to make sure that we don't give any false information to the SCMP.

Note that Romer's tree frog is protected under the Hong Kong Government's Cap. 170 Wild Animals Ordinance. This ordinance states:

"No person shall, except in accordance with a special permit, hunt or wilfully disturb any protected wild animal. "

I am faculty at the University of Hong Kong and I specialize in research on amphibians and reptiles. If I want to touch a Romer's tree frog, I must apply for a permit through AFCD. I have had discussions recently with AFCD staff about the chronic, small-scale loss of breeding populations of Romer's tree frogs on Lamma Island because of the rampant development that seems to be going on now. Romer's tree frog habitats can be destroyed without a permit, yet I must apply for one even to do a non-invasive study on them. AFCD is sympathetic to my frustration, and the people who I interact with at AFCD have their hearts in the right place. Alas, there is so much large-scale development that they have difficulty even knowing that these smaller disturbances are occurring and it doesn't seem that there is a straight-forward, clear mechanism to address such small developments in terms of environmental impacts. Unless the need for an environmental impact assessment is triggered due to the large scale of a project, no surveys will be conducted for any protected animals. By the way, all wild birds in HK are also protected, so any nests destroyed by the current disturbance should constitute a violation of the law.


I am distraught about the lily pond and surrounding area. I visit this site many late nights to look for frogs. Often I have talked with children (and their parents) passing by about amphibians there and many times I have walked by during the day and have seen children catching tadpoles. As small and seemingly insignificant this pond may be to many, it serves important roles for our environment and our community.